CommConnect 2023: Do More With Less

Speaker A: My name is Jenny Field, and I am your keynote for today. Now, this is a keynote like no other, so I'm going to be with you for around about half an hour today talking about how to do more with less. And when I say it's a keynote like no other, it's because I really want to spend some of this time answering your questions. So we had a lovely introduction at the beginning from Joshua about how to use the functionality, and I'd love you to ask any questions you have over there. so that we can get to those questions after I've had a little chat with you about some of my advice on how to do more with less. So if you've got any questions, please ask them, then we can get into some of those. And I love that Bridget's already noticed my print in my office, which is, She's mad but she's magic, and I'm sticking with it, okay? I'm sticking with it. Right, I am going to share my screen and hopefully that means that you will start to see my slides. And if somebody jumps on the stage, then I know that this hasn't gone well at all, but hopefully you're able to see what I'm sharing. So what I want to talk about today is doing more with less when less is more. Now, I didn't want to start this event today with this great big myth that you can do more with less, because that can feel horrible. As communicators, we are often asked to do so much from so many different directions, with very little budget and very little resource. So what I want to focus on today are the 4 things that I've learned in my career, which is around about 20 years now. And I've set up 4 different functions in communications in lots of different sectors. And all of those have had various amounts of support and budget. So how can you do more with less when less is more? Now, the first thing is, as I've said, we cannot do more with less. It is a complete myth. So if people are coming to you and saying, you should be able to do this, it doesn't matter that we've cut your budget in half, it doesn't matter that you no longer have a team, we still expect you to do exactly the same amount of work as before, you can't do that. And you have to be really clear that you can't do that. That's not a failure on your part, that's just fact. If we think about the lovely triangle of project management where you've got money, time, and resources. One of those, if they fall, everything else falls apart. And that's true for us as a function. So it's important for us to manage those expectations. And so much of what we do as communicators is working with lots of different stakeholders across organisations, and managing their expectations is so important. So if they come to you with requests and you cannot do that because there is no budget or there is no resource, It's absolutely fine to talk about the fact that you can't deliver that. What we can do is start to look at different ways we can offer some support. And one of those is to look at progress, not perfection. Now, I first heard this phrase from Priya Bates, who I know is speaking later on today with my good friend Avita Patel, and she talked about the fact that we should focus on progress rather than perfection. And as communicators, we really suffer from the perfection procrastination issue. It's got to be perfect, it's got to be brilliant, it's got to be the best it can be. But that isn't always the way. Sometimes it's about just making some progress. And you may be wondering why you can see the back of a tent on this picture, but this is my tent that I spent a few weeks in, in 2021. in my first camping trip. And I wanted a picture for this slide that would represent how you can do something as sort of a minimum viable product. And I figured if you needed shelter, then a tent would be fine. You don't need a house, a flat, an apartment. You could be in a tent. And that's the sort of mentality that I started to think about for communicators. So sometimes we're asked to do lots of different things. And we want that to be great, and that's brilliant, because it's important for us that things are done properly. But when I was with a client recently, we were doing a strategy day looking at their communication strategy, and how to bring it to life, and align it to the business, and all sorts of things. They were sharing with me this exact challenge. They had too many different requests coming in, they couldn't service all the clients how they wanted to, and they just were running on empty. So we talked about having different tiers of support, different levels of support that they could offer. How could we offer maybe a bronze option for somebody where we take their brief and what they want to do, and we maybe point them in the direction of a supplier that we have vetted, that we're comfortable with, that's approved. We can't help you, but go over here, they'll be great. And then maybe there's a really gold package, which is, let's sit down and talk about the brief and talk about what you need to do, and let's get into the detail, and I'll help you write it, and we'll create it, and we'll do all of this together, and you've got budget, and I've got budget, and this will be great. But that's your sort of gold standard. Where I think we get stuck is trying to do the same level of support for every different stakeholder group, every different request, and we can't do that. And we can't do that if we don't have the budget or the time. So have a think about how you might be able to just change how you support those different stakeholder groups in your organisation, those different departments, and focus on the tent rather than the castle. There we go, that should have been the tagline. The second one is around anchoring your team. Now, I come back to this again and again with different functions that I work with, because if you don't have an anchor for what your team or your function is there to do, people won't really know how you can support them, which means they're going to come and ask you for all sorts of things that might not be relevant to what you actually want to do. But what's important is that your anchoring of your team, or the purpose of your function, even if that's just you, this doesn't matter. We still do the same principles, the same approach, that you're very clear about what you're there to do and what you're not there to do. So if you struggle with this, and if you find that people are coming to you and asking you to make PowerPoints look great for their team meeting, then let's put that in a list of things we're not going to do. And then we might have a list of things we are going to do, which might be having a bit of a coaching session with you on how you might want to run that team meeting a bit differently to get the outcome you're looking for. So you need to decide what the purpose is of your function, and every function is different. This is important because sometimes we can spend our time going out and asking people, what's your function? What's yours? But every one of my own functions has been different. And everyone that I work with in different organisations, all of their functions are different. And if I think back to some of the functions I've set up in my career, I think the first one, when I was setting up internal communications, the purpose there was much more around engagement. It was a sales-based organisation with remote offices of people selling, and it was about engaging very heavily that sales force to deliver what we needed them to deliver. The second function I set up was equally around engagement, but it was with a heavily deskless workforce. So lots of people that were serving in travel locations like train stations, airports. So there was engagement there, but it was a different need. So it was much more around the cascade and how we can work through that. Then, as I became Global Head of Communications, Communications Director, the purposes of those functions shifted to be more about risk and reputation, or more about integrating from a merger and acquisition. Or more around how we can save, you know, half a million pounds through using a different digital platform. So, the reason for the existence of the function has to be grounded in something, and that anchoring is important, because when you're being asked to do more with less, you have to have the ability to say no, and that has to belong somewhere. So, I would do this, and I would go out to different teams every year and explain to them what I was here to do, what I was here not to do, and then how we could support all of those other requests, that might not be part of my function. Now, the third is around being strategic with the tactical. This is one of my favorite ones because it brings me back to a story where I was in a session. I can't even remember what it was. It was at an event, sort of a roundtable type thing. And at that time, I was communications director for a pharmaceutical company, and it was going through an acquisition, which was very messy due to how things were being reshaped on the back of that, and we had a lot of different cultures coming together. So it was a manufacturing culture coming together with a more marketing culture, very different. And I was talking about the fact that we had a PDF newsletter, which can feel a little sad when you're a communications director, that's the only channel you've got, but it was the right channel for what we needed. And I was talking about this at this roundtable event, and someone said to me, I can't believe you're just sending out content regardless. You know, this newsletter is just going out, whatever. And I was like, hang on a second. I'm not just sending this out for the sake of good of my health. You know, there's actually quite a lot of strategy behind this. You know, the reason we've chosen the PDF newsletter is because we can email that out to people as an attachment, which makes it easy with the IT complications of different people coming together. The second is that people can print that out and they can give it out to people on manufacturing lines, which is also something we need to be able to do. And the content is thought through and purposeful, linked to the organization. So it's got content in there about people that are moving or leaving, or it's got introductions to new people or spotlights on different teams, because the purpose of that was to try and build connection. But what people see is a PDF newsletter. But we can be strategic with those tactical things, and that means we're able to really articulate why we're doing something. But it also means that we're not going to get stuck doing things that are wasting money and time, which quite often can happen when we don't have very much of it. It's very easy to just throw resource at a problem, throw time, throw money, throw something at it to make it work. But if we take that time to just step back and think about why are we doing this, what's the purpose of this, and what's the outcome we're looking for, Now, I don't know if many of you have done audits of communication. I would do an audit every year, light. I wouldn't go super heavy, but I'd want to just be checking that things were working how I thought they were working every year. But I always had my channel matrix, which is a lovely little table grid, and I can share this with people if you need it, which is a lovely table that talks about, you know, this is the channel, this is the frequency, this is the purpose, this is the audience. And sometimes this is the cost. But having that allows you to really see where your gaps are or where you're overloading your audience. And if you're doing too much, then this is where less is definitely more. If there are too many channels in your organization and there's too much going on, then people will just switch off. And they'll switch off because the content won't be relevant, and they'll switch off because maybe they can't access the channel or they don't know which channel to go to for what. And they're just confused. And we have to make 35,000 decisions every day as a normal human being. So if you're going to add even more decisions for me, I'm just going to not do that. I'm really good at that. I'm just gonna just not look. And that's what people will be doing. So think about how you're being strategic with those tactical tools and those tactical things that you've got for your different audiences. Now, The final one is around alignment, and I talk about alignment a lot. I talk about it a lot because it's important before you go through a change program. I talk about it because it's important to be aligned as a team, and I talk about it because it's important to have your expectations aligned when it comes to employee experience. But in this instance, I want to talk about that alignment to the organizational strategy. Because again, we can get stuck doing lots of things that aren't linked to the strategy. And when I'm reviewing communication strategies for some of our clients, I can quite quickly see that we're doing a lot of great things, but I'm not really sure why we're doing them. And if it's not to serve the purpose of the strategy and the organisation's purpose and what it's trying to achieve, then we're just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff. And we feel probably quite good because we're getting things done. But if we're not aligned, it means that we're not being that supportive function to the organisation that we need to be. So if you're finding that you're doing a lot of things, but you're not sure whether it's aligned to the business strategy or the organisation strategy, just have a look at what those different pillars are for the organisation, and then think about the content that you're sharing and make sure it's mapped to that. Because if it's not mapped to that, It's going to get very noisy and not very relevant for people, and they'll be wondering why they're doing what they're doing. So having that time to step back and making sure that your communication strategy and plan is completely linked to the organisation is really important. And again, this comes back to the other 3 points as well. So if you've got this great purpose for your team, we're very clear what you're there to do, and then that's aligned to the organisational strategy. So we are here to do this because of this. Then people will start to understand what you're there to do, and that's where you can start really adding value, which is great, and you might not be doing some of the other things that are taking up your time but aren't actually what we need to be doing. Now, I want to finish with just one more point, because it's really important to make sure that you're not, not that you're not just getting sucked into doing all the other things that you don't really want to do, but that you are focused on the delivery of the things that will make a difference. And that is sometimes easier said than done, because we've all got stakeholders who are quite noisy, and we've all got stakeholders who we might have really good relationships with. But if we are being dragged off in lots of different places, then we're not able to do more with less. And what happens then is you end up working weekends and working in the evenings and almost burning yourself out. But the business doesn't see that, because what they see is this amazing person or this amazing team that's able to do so much, because we haven't educated them around what's actually possible. And if you're doing that with the best of intentions, the unintended consequences of that are that you will find it really difficult to grow as a function, or get that budget, or get that resource. Because why do I need to give it to you? You're doing everything and this is all fine. So we have to tread that really fine balance between delivery and education, because if we continue to just deliver, then it's going to make it really difficult for us to go and ask for more budget or ask for more resource or ask for more time. And that's the sweet spot that you want to balance. And I've done this, so I can say with experience and conviction. that when you work all of the hours in the world, people don't see any more value. But when you start to put some of those boundaries in place, it makes it much easier. And when you start to do that, it gives you much more opportunity to build a team. So, when I started to step back, it allowed me to show that actually I can't do this, but if we had an operations communications manager, they would be able to pick that up. And it probably took me around 6 months before I was able to get the resource in for someone to join the team. So it's a fine line to balance, but it's really important, and I feel quite— I felt very passionately about this when I was talking to the team at Contact Monkey about making sure we're being very realistic about what we mean with doing more with less, because less is so often more in a very, very noisy world. Now, I've only got one more screen left, which is just if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn or if you want to join my mailing list community. You're very welcome to scan those and connect because I always love to have more conversations after these. And I am going to stop sharing my screen in the hope that Ty, I think, is gonna come back on and maybe have some questions for me to answer. If it all goes seamlessly well, he will appear miraculously next to me any moment.

Speaker B: Hey, Jenny, amazing talk. Thank you so much for going over your 4 pillars there. I was just wondering if you could share screen just for, you know, 30 seconds to a minute longer for those that didn't have a chance to scan or they want to scan both of them?

Speaker A: Yes, I can. And then—

Speaker B: perfect, thank you. And everyone else, while we have those QR codes up on the screen, I encourage you to go to the Q&A section just beside the chat function where you can then write in any questions you have for Jenny pertaining to her presentation, or maybe you're curious about her book, whatever it is, write it in the Q&A field and also note that you can upvote a question if you like it, if you really want to make sure it gets asked. We're going to give you 30 seconds to continue scanning those QR codes and upvoting some questions.

Speaker A: I'm going to stop sharing now, mainly so I can see other faces. There we go, lovely. Awesome. And I can see the chat and all sorts of things now. It's lovely.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Oh, let me just know. I'm gonna, um, while we're in here, I'm going to just see if I can grab the link for the channel matrix for people. So, uh, there's been a few requests for that, so bear with me just a second.

Speaker B: Yeah, that would be great. We are getting a few more questions pop in, so I'll start that shortly.

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker B: And, uh, Nina, I do see your question asking about the recording and handouts being available after the session. Those will be available, so yes, hang tight for those and an email from us. Um, yeah, I am going to pop up a question if you're okay with it.

Speaker A: Go for it.

Speaker B: Hadley Blackshear, I'm going to share it on the screen as well. What are the different ways that you have audited and how often do you recommend Each?

Speaker A: Um, okay, so there's lots of different ways to do audits. Let me pop that link in the chat, which has got the link to my Channel Matrix in it. So lots of different ways to audit. Um, it depends what you're trying to achieve in some ways. So when I created the FIELD model, which is my model for diagnosing the root cause of stuff, you can apply that to an audit. So how you diagnose what's good and bad you can use different tools for that. So I would be using surveys, focus groups, one-to-one interviews. And in my book, I've got a little model about the number of employees and which ones you should use for which. But generally, I kind of go straight to focus groups and one-to-one interviews because there'll be data from employee engagement surveys usually, and I want to find out a bit more about that. So if I'm doing an audit, I want to go and talk to people and find out how they're receiving information, whether it's information that they find useful or interesting, and whether it's information to help them do their job, whether it's information that helps them feel connected. So 2 different kinds of content buckets. What I've learned over the years is using big words like information isn't helpful. And that's why I tend to go for the conversations, because then you can ask people and say, when you think about communication, what is that to you? Because quite often we'll find in surveys people will say communication isn't very good, but what they mean is my line manager's rubbish. So we need to make sure that we're understanding what they're talking about. So I would do probably a fairly robust audit every couple of years where I would probably combine all 3: survey, focus groups, and one-to-ones every couple of years. And then each year I would be doing either some group sessions, definitely one-to-ones with leaders to make sure I've got that alignment going on all the way through. But anything more than kind of 2 years, I think, for an audit doesn't give you time to test and learn and really see what's going to stick. I think we often want to change things quite quickly, but people take time to get on board with different technology or different platforms or different things, and you've got to give people that time to get to know stuff.

Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you, Jenny. And we do have another question actually from Hadley that seems to be getting quite a few upvotes. So I'm going to share this one on screen for you now. It says, how do you go about professionally telling people that it's not your job to make their PowerPoints? Haha, I felt that one on a personal level.

Speaker A: I don't know any communicator that hasn't been asked to do that. So when I've been asked to to tidy up somebody's PowerPoint, or can you help me make it look great? What I tend to do is I'd go and, if it was possible, I'd go and see them and understand what it was they were trying to do. I would never do it unless it was for a big conference. So when we were doing our big store manager conferences of sort of 500 people, I was absolutely dealing with PowerPoints because I was not leaving that to other people. But I also had a creative team that would sort of even polish it even further. So if you've got people asking you to do it, the first thing is review what they've given you, put comments on it, and then give it back to them. So we educate at the same time as help. That's always the balance. So let them know what they need to change, then they can go and do it. If it is for something where they do need some help, then you can say, I can have a quick look, but this isn't my area of expertise because it's design, so I need to just send it over to Fred, Frank, this agency, whatever, who we have on retainer, who can help us, who can help us sort of sort this out. And also, here's a link to a PowerPoint skills course that might be interesting for you. And HR might have that. I know in previous jobs we did have a, like, a Microsoft sort of suite where people could go and learn certain things. But I really like the, this is my advice and you can go and do it yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that comes back to that kind of bronze, silver, gold support. So there might be some people that, you know, that, you know, I just remember, just think about Bob, who was my— one of my operations directors, and there's no way Bob was going to do it. I could, I could have marked it up for him and he still wouldn't have done it. So I either would have gone to his PA to get her to help or just done it myself because it was— it would have been an easy thing to do. But again, it's what's good enough. You know, you can make a PowerPoint look better, doesn't need to look Amazing. And that's— we— that's for us to sort of go, oh, I've got it to the point of it being a big tent. I'm gonna step back now. It doesn't need to be a castle.

Speaker B: Amazing. Yeah, sounds a great— like a great way to hold their hand, but at the same time empower them to, uh, yeah, kind of take it on their own and not pass their work on to anyone. I'm gonna throw another question up on the stage for you here, Jenny. This one's coming from Melissa Duarte. And it says, can you give some tips to strike that balance between delivery and education? Can you give some tips?

Speaker A: Um, so I think the, the tip I just gave around, uh, sending it back with the comments, like, that for me is, is, is the— is a really good example of I've helped you and I've educated you. Same with a Word document. If somebody was writing something for the intranet or writing something for the magazine, I would mark— I would track changes and send it back to them. I would then, you know, probably take it forward, but I'd always send them back a tracked change version so they could see what I've edited. So those sorts of things are where I think it's helpful. What I also had was a sort of briefing template. So if somebody had, you know, a health and safety thing they needed to deal with or anything like that, I would have a briefing template I would work through. And I was talking about this actually literally this week with someone that I'm doing some one-to-one support with, and she's having really this problem of everything's falling on her lap. And I said, well, go to the meeting with that briefing template and then just ask them the questions that you need to ask them, because you're educating them at the same time as being helpful. If you're asking them questions like, What's the outcome you're looking for? How do you want people to feel? What do you want them to think? What do you want them to do? You know, they're just nice conversational questions, but you're making them think slightly differently about maybe what they're asking. And that's in your relationships. So that's about how you find the ways to ask those questions. And that's a much nicer way than just sending them a briefing template and going, can you fill this out? Because that's just going to irritate people and they're going to say, Oh, communications aren't being helpful. Well, no, because I've got 700 other requests coming in and I'm trying to deal with them all. So it's being able to find that time to sit with them and help them. And then after a while, you can then just give them the sheet and they can carry on. So you've got to take them on that journey so that they are almost coming to you saying, I've got all these answers and this is what I need. And that's where you want to get to. But In my experience, that takes a couple of years just to manage expectations.

Speaker B: Amazing. That makes great sense. And it actually brings me into my next question from Milan Fredericks, actually from Columbia University, who ties in quite nicely, saying, how do you recommend you maintain that boundary when you're a very small team or a team of one and everything seems to fall on you?

Speaker A: So I've always been a small team, so everything I've talked about is in my experience of being either a team of one or a team of two, and that was intentional on my part. I prefer an outsourced model, so I preferred to have a sort of bench of experts that I could go to that would then be using other people's budgets, quite frankly, which made it much easier. And that boundary has to be the right boundary for you, so I can give you examples of what I have done, but it's finding the right fit for you. One thing that I did do quite late on in my career was I was in a global role and I was working, I'd start work at 6 o'clock on the train and then I'd finish work at about half past 6 when I was leaving the office, and I loved my job, I wasn't doing this out of resentment at all, but I ended up going to have the conversation with my boss because I had this sort of moment of I really would like to go to the gym a bit more, maybe just have a bit of a life. And so I went in and I said, I'm gonna still come in early because that works for me, that's my preference, but I'm gonna leave here at 4 o'clock because the organization is actually doing quite well, like it's fine, that's not on fire, and if it goes on fire, there's nowhere for me to go in order to stretch into that space because I'm already using all of that space. So if I can finish at 4, I'll still be contactable. But then if something does happen, I've got the 4 till 6 buffer to lean into if there was a crisis or if something was needed or if there was something urgent. But if I'm already maximizing my time, I'm really eating into that time where I should be probably starting to wind down and go to bed. And then I'm resentful and then I'm not enjoying that. So that was on me to do that. And I still remember now walking out of the office at 4 o'clock, and I used to sit outside the CEO's office. and she did not enjoy the fact I was doing this, and I sort of crept out quietly because culturally it was not really the thing to do, but nothing bad happened, you know, everybody was fine. And then I did it again, and then I did it again, and everything was fine. But we have to find what's right for us for that boundary, and that's really important to find those right things. But it is, you know, the bronze, silver, gold support, the these are my hours, and letting people know So I was quite clear, I'm only contactable on my mobile after 4. My voicemail says, if it's urgent, text me. I'm rubbish at listening to voicemail, so I'm going to put things in place so that I don't have to do that and I'm going to move people to where I need them to go. So it's communicating what your boundaries are in a way that is not really strict and firm, but is like, oh yeah, I don't— I'm only contactable on my mobile after 4.

Speaker B: Amazing. Yeah, that sounds like some great boundary setting. And maybe it's a sign to senior leadership, you know, if you're stretched that thin, Then hey, maybe we do need a second person on our communications team.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: I'm gonna throw another question up for you, Jenny. I think we have time for 2 or 3 more questions if that's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So this one says, have you had any experience in dealing with teams that lack alignment internally or across the organization of lacking a company vision? And if yes, do you have any advice to get them on track? Coming from Lori Todd, a communications Yes, I do.

Speaker A: So I've worked with different teams that don't have alignment for various different reasons, so you've got to find out why that alignment isn't there. So there's a really good book called Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. It's a very short book, you can listen to it, which I listened to in about 3 hours, I think, a few years ago. That's quite a good listen in terms of a leadership team and the dysfunction that can exist. But we have to find out where that lack of alignment is coming from. So, is it coming from the fact that people don't have the skills to do what they're being asked to do? Is it that they don't— they've got a poor leader who lacks the skills to lead? Is it that there's some history between 2 different people in a team and they, you know, can't bear each other? There might— it's finding out what that is, and once you have found out what the root cause is of that misalignment, then you fix that. And that's the bit that's really important. When I've done this with teams before, we— and this is where the one-to-ones come in. So, I'd be having one-to-ones with the different people in the team to understand, you know, what do you love about this team? What frustrates you? You know, what do you feel gets in the way of your success? Do you trust the leaders? That's always a very tricky one, but that's why the conversations are better than surveys. And then we start to find out what it is that's kind of really going on, and then we can start to fix that through some coaching conversations and maybe changing how we work as a team. So there might be a misalignment because somebody's really annoyed that all of the, you know, some of the practical stuff like the meetings are always at 3 o'clock and I've got children to pick up. It could be anything that's causing that friction. So it's finding out what that is. If that friction is coming, or if that alignment is coming because there's no vision, that's down to the leader. So the leader has to have some sort of vision, and this came up in the research I've just done on how to be a credible leader or how to be a leader people will follow. They have to have some sort of vision, not a visionary, but they have to be able to articulate where we're going so that people will follow them. If they're not doing that, then that's on them to fix, and that's through sort of maybe some coaching discussions and just asking them some very specific questions, you know, Talk to me about what your team are trying to achieve this year. Can you help me understand what are the top 3 priorities for you? Then we can start to write something for them, which might help them start to anchor people into that. But the behaviors have to match the words, and that might be where the alignment might not be there, if you're saying one thing and doing another. But it's getting to that root cause that's really important.

Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you. And I think we have time for one more question. I apologize to the people that we couldn't get to all your questions.

Speaker A: Uh, will you send them to me afterwards, Ty?

Speaker B: Yes, I definitely will, as well as with the names of those who are asking, and then maybe, um, brilliant.

Speaker A: I can— yeah, brilliant.

Speaker B: Okay, that is a great compromise. Thank you, Jenny. But the last one that we are going to do live, we are going to go from Jenny Jackson, and I'm sharing her question right now. Oh, sorry, I'm trying I cannot share it on screen, but it says, I'm going about creating a communications department at my company. Do you have any advice on about what roles I will need and how to go about creating the department?

Speaker A: Oh, how exciting! Oh, that's very exciting. So I do the research first. So I would start with interviews with the leadership team and that sort of audit piece with the employees on scale. to understand what are the communication problems you're trying to solve in your organization. So we have to understand that, and then we can find the right team. So then you might be building a function that needs quite a big sort of content element to it, or it might have a big creative element. You might need to be doing lots of video, you know, whatever. Then we know what the skills are that we need. But until we know what the problem is that the creation of that function is solving, we don't know what the team's going to be. There are lots of different ways of building a team. You can have sort of business partners, you can have specialists around content, digital, you can sort of do it that way. There's no right or wrong, and that's the only thing I would say. And one of the best ways to do it would be just to ask lots of people how they're structuring stuff, but you need to get that insight and research first. If you try and just build a team without understanding what that purpose is going to be of that. So it's almost going through some of those 4 pillars that I talked through around, you know, you've got to have that anchor point and that mission statement, and you can only get that if you know why the function is there to exist. So I'd also look at whether or not you need to employ people or whether you can do an outsourced model, which is my preference. It might feel like it's more expensive, but with the on-cost of salaries and everything else, it can actually work out to be much quicker and much more efficient. to plug in some external support rather than actual bums on seats, as they say. So just don't, don't always think about the traditional model of I need to employ different people. It might be something a bit different. And in the world today, that's much easier to do.

Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you, Jenny. Well, as we mentioned, we are going to connect Jenny with all of you asking questions in the chat so we can take this conversation a little bit past CommConnect. 2023. But for now, Jenny, thank you so much for being our fabulous keynote. I am going to take you off stage now, and we're going to continue on with